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How /r/PewDiePieSubmissions Went So Awry
Then, the anti-Semitic video (in some eyes) was posted. A huge blow to PewDiePie's channel. The whole incident cost him over $60,000, not counting the drop from Maker Studios and the drop of his YouTube Red series. PewDiePie had to change for the good, and here we are now, criticizing a subreddit because it's too friendly. But whereas 2016 PewDiePie had been indicative of what Felix hoped he would be— new PewDiePie didn’t really mean much.
“ive been a fan of pewds since his lets plays but his new stuff is really shit...at least lets play pewdiepie innovated and was interesting to watch’” said one person I spoke to for this post. PewDiePie had a new name and face that no one really understood at his team of editors, designers, and his relations group.
Such a major shift should have left PewDiePie's channel in the dust to rot and die. Instead, it lead to the growth of his channel in the tens of millions of new people.
When the first LWIAY was created on June 22nd, 2017, it was left with positive reception. You could finally have a connection to the largest creator and show what you created to him. Quality? Who the fuck cares? You put soul in it and you created something that PewDiePie would react to in a positive way. Now we're on the 120th LWIAY in 3 years (and I did the math, that's roughly 1 LWIAY every week), and the "You put soul in it" part is no longer relevant. This subreddit has 16,000+ members. That itself is a testament to how hated the subreddit is.
Fans have speculated endlessly as to how PewDiePie went so awry. Was it originally a plan for small PewDiePie that spiraled out of control? Did his manager force him to do this? Did he try to lower the quality purposefully to sell merch based on "organically" created memes? Are subreddit posts dictated by an AI that shows PewDiePie posts?
The answer to all of those questions is no.
This account of /PewDiePieSubmissions, based on interviews with multiple people who either worked on the subreddit or adjacent to it (all of whom were granted anonymity because disclosing such information jeopardizes their position as a moderator or worse), is a story of indecision and mismanagement. It’s a story of technical failings, as the moderation team is inadequate at handling the subreddit in an appropriate way. It’s a story of stereotypes. It’s a story of a subreddit created after a tense time in PewDiePie history.
Perhaps most alarming, it’s a story about a subreddit in crisis. With almost 3,000,000 people subscribed, a moderator team of over 70 has lead to tense actions within the subreddit. At the helm of this sinking ship is SlothonMeth, who has hired those 70 people. Out of them, 10 are bots created by Sloth or assisted by Sloth himself with full permissions, allowing him to take down the subreddit if he really wanted to using some Python code. Another 10 are random accounts created months before their term as moderator began. The other 50 are accounts with hundreds of thousands of karma.
“Sloth owns the subreddit. If he has a temper tantrum one day, expect hell,” said a moderator I spoke to privately. “I think it's scary how the rest of the mods here basically own Reddit's top subreddits. Sloth owns or mods every meme subreddit there is, there's no escaping that. He mods fucking /funny, for Gods sake.”
I attempted to contact to both PewDiePie through a connection I have with him and SlothonMeth with no response.
For comparison on how bad the situation is, for every 42857 users on the subreddit, there is one mod sitting there. This sounds like a normal ratio, until you apply that to a subreddit with 3,000,000 people. /funny has 1/3 of the moderators yet 10x the subscriber number. It is clear that Sloth is bent on having as much power as possible on the subreddit of a YouTuber with over 100,000,000 subscribers.
There’s a term called “PewDiePie magic.” It’s a belief that no matter how rough a video may be in terms of humor, things will always come together in a few months. The channel will always coalesce. It's happened with the memes PewDiePie has created such as "But can you do this?"
One thing’s for certain: On Floor Gang, PewDiePie's magic ran out and appeased the lowest common denominator.
Prototypes and Pipe DreamsIn the beginning, PewDiePie transitioned away from Let's Plays. In early 2015 and 2016, the New York Times reported such tonal shift, and Patricia Hernandez of Kotaku wrote, "over the last year, the PewDiePie channel has also had an underlying friction, as Kjellberg slowly distances himself from many of the things that made him famous. He's doing fewer Let's Plays of horror games like Amnesia," and adding, "the PewDiePie of 2016 can still be immature, sure, but [...] a defining aspect of recent PewDiePie videos is existential angst, as he describes the bleak reality of making content for a machine he cannot fully control or understand." That idea formed into the video depicting PewDiePie in Nazi attire and him hiring two Fiverr users to write the words "Death to all Jews" on a sign.
PewDiePie's YouTube Red series, dropped. Maker Studios? Dropped. The only remaining action after Felix's apology was to take that into action. The early ideas for Clean PewDiePie (which we’ll call LWIAY from now on for clarity) were ambitious and changing constantly, according to his videos uploaded after January 2017. As is typical during this sort of “ideation” phase, nobody knew what the channel would look like yet—they just wanted to see what might be cool for PewDiePie to do. It would be a commentary channel, certainly, but it would be more tame than the previous 2 years.
Over the months, a core concept started to crystallize: You would make the memes he reacted to. ”PewDiePie used to be about memes from the Internet. Now, you can send the memes,” said one person who moderates for the subreddit.
We saw a small glimpse of these prototypes with LWIAY #001, when PewDiePie asked his fans to use a compilation of green screen footage to make something funny:
120 episodes later and those plans of having a funny show on the Internet are nothing like what it is today.
LWIAY was always envisioned to be a series that had fun with itself. Not every post was a masterpiece but the integrity of those who posted repelled against doing it for the upvotes.
“It was really interesting,” said one person who posted. “I think it found a way that other series dont."
What remained unclear is how it would scale. How is quality supposed to be imposed on a channel that is nearing 40,000,000 subscribers? What is preventing people from karma-baiting their way to the top? Who will moderate the subreddit?
As these questions lingered, the PewDiePie team saw the success of LWIAY and created LWIAY #002 two weeks later.
To describe the LWIAY subreddit, /PewDiePieSubmissions, as anything, it would be the Enterprise from Star Trek. Nowadays, however, it's an Enterprise without its Jean-Luc Picard, and instead a Data is at the head of the Enterprise, unable to command an army of tens of people on a single path: Grow so SlothonMeth can grow.
Still, members on the subreddit loved it even as PewDiePie slowly, but surely, went out of focus in this picture. What everyone saw there was so much potential in those early days. ‘Potential’ was always the word there.”
One fan who posted in those early days knew it would be big. “yeah idk but lwiay is big and im happy to be a part of that,” said another person. “you either made something really amazing or you made something bad. if it had any semblance of having a soul it would be in”.
Question was, how would they do that when there were 100,000 people ready to join? How about 1,000,000? As LWIAY progressed, it became clear that some of the original ideas either wouldn’t work or weren’t quite solidified enough to be practical. Take quality, for example. The mandate was that quality posts would be celebrated more, but how would Reddit reward that? Reddit is based on a system of upvotes and downvotes that are solely opinionated beliefs of a hivemind.
“it kinda felt like pewds was just having fun,” added the fan. “but like he's a huge ytber so idk how you do that.”
Complicating these problems further was the fact that any ideas had to go through Sloth. This can cause ideas to be absolutely shot down regardless of quality, and it's due to a word that has plagued many subreddits for years now, a word that can still evoke a mocking smile or sad grimace from anyone who has had to deal with the word.
That word, of course, is Slothonmeth.
“Sloth is full of shit,” one moderator told me a few weeks ago, aptly summing up the feelings of perhaps thousands of people.
Slothonmeth is a user on Reddit who is known for being a subreddit farmer. He owns/moderates over 120 subreddits. To many, he is a razor blade to what Reddit stands for. One of these problems is that sloth_on_meth chooses to steamroll decisions. A vote on /dankmemes was held to keep/ban the "B" meme. A unanimous vote was called, resulting in the meme being kept. Unfortunately, Sloth did not feel the same way and overturned the decision for his own beliefs. Among this, XXXTentacion's death sparked a debate as memes about his death were banned, whereas the death of Stephen Hawking and Avicii were not. Among these complaints, the /Battlefield subreddit's hatred for Battlefield V's historical inaccuracy in a historical accurate game regarding women on the battlefield resulted in a heated argument about that historically accurate history (and his status as moderator as a corpohuman).
There are some complaints I'm raising with Sloth. Firstly, PewDiePie is unclear of who Sloth is. This is evident with a post on /redditrequest where he requested to have admin rights to the subreddit, breaking what PewDiePie wanted in the first place. Secondly, Sloth purged ADL comments and shifted the narrative to attack 4chan instead of being a moderator of respect and accountability. But perhaps Sloth's behavior is excusable with his actions that help the Reddit community?
As it turns out, Sloth is a formidable being hellbent on respect and admiration. Expecting Sloth to assist in subreddit matters served a challenge for both moderators and users who want to speak to Sloth. I encountered these same issues myself. When "sub to pewds" was a meme, Sloth had no care in what other subreddits were annoyed by. Instead, his belief was on "will this get the subreddit banned off of Reddit?" Sloth's attempts to prove himself as a "member" are nothing short of corrupt either. During Gardening Week, Sloth posted a meme criticizing the people on the subreddit in an innocuous way. A comment rang in my head when I read the comments:
Oh look at that, it’s the sloth. With the mematic. HE IS ONE OF US.Except, the "made with memetic" text doesn't look like that. I used iOS 13 and an iPhone 11 Pro with the Mematic app, and the font used is completely different. The typeface for the c in the meme is rounded and reminds me of the Cheddar font. However, the font used on my iOS build on Mematic was hard and with a less prominent drop shadow. The only logical conclusion is that the Mematic watermark was added in post, to give it a "homegrown look". Instead, to any viewer, it looks disingenuous and fake.
Throughout those early years in the subreddit, the guidelines imposed now to keep the subreddit safe from naughty opinions were non-existent. When Sloth received permission to add more moderators, he avoided using his powers sparingly by inviting 6 moderators. Out of them, only one has less than 50,000 karma.
“so basically Sloth invited me to mod because i already modded for dankmemes. that's the only reason. we're here solely because sloth invited us and wants us to become his personal slaves lol” said a moderator. “idk if you could call him a whore of subreddits though but he's kind of a dick”
“Sloth is full of shit.” - /PewDiePieSubmissions moderator
Even today, the additions made to the subreddit are not enough. The 10 bots are useless when it comes to context on the subreddit.
“It’s hard enough to make a subreddit,” said a fan. “It’s really hard to make a subreddit based on the largest youtuber ngl.”
From the beginning, /PewDiePieSubmission’s senior leadership had made the decision to sideline PewDiePie. PewDiePie was the peanut gallery to his fans, giving him the ammo to provide his praise and reactions.
It often felt to the moderator team later down the line like they were overstaffed, according to the ratio. The issue of being overmoderated has led to the subreddit going in split directions and paths.
“Never really felt my ideas were considered yah know?" one moderator said. "I mean I can deal with the behavior of Sloth but I'm a person too".
When a decision was made, it was rare to be a part of the team that Sloth employed. If you were a mod, your goal was to take down the bad posts one of the other 70 didn't catch.
Reddit's moral razor blade was buried deeply inside the subreddit, and it would prove impossible to stop the bleeding.
By the end of 2017, the subreddit would grow into a new year of perils and tribulations faced by the audience of PewDiePie.
Over the months, the subreddit solidified into a real subreddit. An analysis of the mod team found that Sloth does not hire for quality, but rather for experience, specifically in his subreddits.
In 2018, perhaps the largest decision made in the subreddit was one with no relation to the subreddit at all.
In August of 2018, PewDiePie had declared war on T-Series. What led is one of the worst events in the subreddit's history, and the refusal of the moderators to do anything.
StereotypesThe subreddit already has a stereotype.
For almost a year, the statement "Keanu Chungus Wholesome 100" is representative of the subreddit's obsession with celebrity culture, unfunny memes, and stale memes. Despite the fact that it is a subreddit based on Twitter screengrabs and reposts, it has a superiority complex over Instagram and their meme thievery.
The question lingers: Why is this so prevalent? Is it due to children? The accessibility of Reddit? Sloth's management? The upvote and downvote system?
The answer is all of those.
Firstly, the children point. The shift in a much softer PewDiePie has led to a child fanbase liking his content, and therefore creating memes for the subreddit and voting on ones that they enjoy the most. This happens to be stale memes that are in agreement with the policies that the fanbase holds.
Secondly, the accessibility of Reddit and its upvote/downvote system. As defined by Reddit itself:
Vote. If you think something contributes to conversation, upvote it. If you think it does not contribute to the subreddit it is posted in or is off-topic in a particular community, downvote it.This is a simple system and it was designed for well-minded and well-rounded philosophical discussion about books on, let's say, /books. However, this does not apply in a meme subreddit, where the popular vote of children is the deciding factor of posts.
The accessibility of Reddit makes it easy to pick up and post, compared to the complexities of an imageboard like 4chan, where the graph of quality is changed.
On Reddit, quality is not a deciding factor when it comes to meme subreddits. How good the meme is in a popular sense is. On 4chan, if you posted a meme from Reddit, it would be instantly criticized.
Lastly, Sloth's management has let quality memes slide. For most things, the popular opinion is chosen. There is no emphasis on quality or how long it took you to make that painting of PewDiePie. If it is not funny or relevant, it will not go far. (If you want to learn about crunch on a meme subreddit, my first expose piece on /LodedDiper should help you out).
An Attack on Our YouthUntil very recently, there hasn't been a war on PewDiePie's fanbase to a great magnitude since T-Series, mentioned in the last chapter. Cocomelon changed all of that, and it changed the subreddit permanently. It was an all out assault on Cocomelon's content.
What fans might not have realized was that they took it too far.
A post on the subreddit recently grazed hot of this very subreddit (and hell, I'm even on there in a top comment). It described a man playing a PewDiePie video, but the intro containing the original Cocomelon music with a subtle visual remix. PewDiePie's face then appeared to talk, and the child who had stumbled out of a room to watch the strange video was now in tears. I spoke to a child psychologist about this behavior
“This kind of behavior is a sign of a child being abused mentally.” said the psychologist I spoke to. “If this behavior continues, which I would assume it would, it could serve disastrous consequences to the child's development.”
I showed them some of the other messages left both on the post and the responses by the original poster. Here's a snippet of our transcript of our Skype call when I showed them the messages:
Me: "So, if you look at these messages, they're pretty bad. One is about seeing pleasure in the disappointment and mental instability of children, another about doing the same to their children, and then the poster of this tried to say he's doing his job right."
Them: "That's pretty horrific stuff I've seen so far, yeah. Even if those people are joking, I'm pretty deeply, uh, concerned."
"30,000 people liked this too, and these little icons are awards that people paid to put digital pictures on this post."
"People donated to this with their own money? Out of all the wonderful organizations that are dedicated to helping people in the world, they donate it to a guy that performs this behavior and films it to an audience of, uh, how many are there on that board?"
"It says 2,905,000 here."
"That's a lot of people for a simple website. And you say some guy reacts to this stuff online and gets millions of views?"
The lack of moderation on that past is startling. To this day, that post has not received moderation action by any member of the 70+ mod team, despite it receiving 30,000 upvotes and breaking Rule 3:
No Hatespeech of ANY kind. This includes a wide variety of things. Basically, don't be a dick. make sure to hit report on any violations you see.“post should be removed tbh it's kinda awful to do that to a child” - member of this subreddit
The post has continued to receive praise and admiration from the community, despite breaking a very obvious rule.
Under the narrative of Reddit's lust of money, these posts will continue to break the rules and get away with it. Even facing backlash from similar posts is not enough for the mods to take down a post.
“We're not taking down posts because they don't violate any rules. Anyone can steal a phone from a little brother and fake it, that's not enough for us to take action”.
Something was wrong to many, and the accessibility of Cocomelon to the American audience rather than a more foreign one (at least demographic wise) has allowed this behavior to run rampant. The question is, whether it would be stopped and set an example.
Something needed to give.
Sloth on Literal MethOn September 9th, 2019, a donation was made out to the Anti-Defamation League in Felix's name, an organization with a controversial past.
An apology was made from the behalf of SlothonMeth, but the structure of the apology is all wrong for it to be legitimate.
Firstly, the claim of "death threats" is illegitimate because there is little to no proof, and the only person trying to do damage control was SlothonMeth (who was the main target). Secondly, comments were still removed even after Sloth claimed that the mod team would stop purging comments. And thirdly, the claims of "understaffing" are not true because of the interviews I provided above about overstaffing.
The racist comments that Sloth pointed out were swiftly downvoted and criticized, and the bot userleansbot was silenced from speaking due to Sloth's relation with Chapo Trap House (a left-wing podcast). A response from one of the users rightly sums up the non-apology released by Sloth:
First, I admit I don't keep up with all the recent anti-semetic trends because I'm a) not a hater of the jewish faith/people and b) don't care what such people are up to.... but only one of those comments cited from my pov can be construed as anti-semetic. hint. it's the last one. the other two are just weirdly formatted criticisms.
Second, thank you for not apologizing for being a censorious little shit and making pewdiepie break his promise of keeping this sub censorship free. sure, pewds talks to you all the time and is totes your biggest fan x,y,z,x,y,z wtfe. Fact, he made a promise. Either he broke it and should get shit for it, or you made him do it and you should get shit for it. Not saying you should let every hateful comment go through but that you deserve shit when you delete legitimate criticism.
Third, I do not once see you say anything about your knowledge of things, which leads me to believe that you never actually talked to pewds or anyone else about this.... unless you're the person who advised him, in which case f you and i'm glad your ploy failed. the alternative, you don't know pewds and are making shit up. Why? because a mod would be worried about the subject of a subreddit potentially being blackmailed. yet strangely, not a peep about any convo's nor any words of encouragement... so yeah. I don't believe for a second you know pewds. i won't until I see proof aka screenshots.
Finally, you seem to have a problem lumping criticism in with hate speech......... exactly like opponents of certain movements that are popular among the youth and the enemy of certain people. Sloth. prove me wrong and apologize for the censorship of legitimate criticism and it won't happen again.... but if I've read you right, I won't hold my breathe.
The End of the Decade and /PewDiePieSubmissionsIf the Wall Street Journal didn't criticize PewDiePie's actions, I wouldn't be here talking about this subreddit because it would have never existed. T-Series would have taken over PewDiePie in the same amount of time. Children would have been harassed silently. In that case, even if you disagree with the subreddit existing, it's fortunate it exists in the first place. It's a "vibe check" for reality.
When SlothonMeth joined, the only goal was to grow a presence for the subreddit.
“the good thing about Sloth is that he was a Leslie Knope of subreddits,” said a moderator. “that was the thing the subreddit lacked, ambition. but my praise for him ends there.”
By the beginning of 2019, T-Series' actions had led to a dedicated fanbase in no need to preserve what made PewDiePie magical.
This final year was when the materialization of the subreddit truly set in stone with the massive brigade of Reddit moderators entering.
Meanwhile, the Internet-wide landscape was changing. Reddit was becoming more corporate. PewDiePie was trying to bring back Minecraft. The Keanu Reeves moment at E3 led to the Internet fainting inside of itself over Keanu (despite it being a marketing stunt).
And /PewDiePieSubmissions was maturing into a serious subreddit.
“I would say it ended up being quite a stressful time,” said one moderator. “The subreddit was trying to act like it had 30,000,000 users and 3,000 at the same time.”
One mandate from the higher-ups at /PewDiePieSubmissions had been to make the subreddit “unfarmable,” a reaction to Reddit's consistent problem with "karmafarming", a term for users that like to abuse the upvote and downvote system in order to receive karma, which they can then sell the account off to the highest bidder or "flex" to their friends. This was "solved" using a three-tier system of a diamond sword (a flair allowing you to post memes not related to PewDiePie), a wooden sword (allowing new accounts to be more lenient since they are not used to Reddit), or a sand block for karmafarmers (only allowing OC PewDiePie content)
This sounds like a dream on paper, but is unpractical in concept. Karmafarming is an act that cannot be circumvented unless an internal system is in place not known to the general public.
Hardcore users will notice two things when viewing controversial of all time on /PewDiePieSubmissions:
- Almost all of the top controversial posts spanning from 1 to 100 are from this year.
- Some of the most controversial posters still have a diamond pickaxe on their profile.
You cannot change your flair. Only moderators have that permission, meaning these posters were purposefully selected by the moderator team.
The top 3 controversial posts are karmabaits. They are posts designed to gain the Reddit algorithm of upvoting, where the longer a post is, the less meaningful an upvote/downvote is to your account.
For the first few hours, they reach 69 upvotes. After that, the upvotes and downvotes are meaningless. This is blatant abuse of the Reddit system, and yet they have a diamond sword. Or how about the "let's get my backpack/hand on LWIAY" posts that also have that sword of prestige?
“We try to understand the complaints,” said a moderator. “But it's frankly impossible and I don't think any of the other people here realize or care. They're just here for the power.”
If there was one reason for moderators to be optimistic, it was the fact that unlike the other subreddits Sloth owns, /PewDiePieSubmissions had room to evolve. According to him, he had direct contact with PewDiePie and Sive, and such could discuss with them ideas, and PewDiePie can air out his complaints + take action if necessary.
It turns out that /PewDiePieSubmissions doesn't want to improve and grow. Because it means alienating an audience of children who have no forgiveness for mistakes made in the past.
PreservationPerhaps /PewDiePieSubmissions will become a quality subreddit with improvements spearheaded by Reddit's inner working to compliment a system that is broken and destroyed.
The subreddit we got was one we didn't deserve. I subscribed to PewDiePie in 2011 and I was happy when he transitioned into something that matured as I "matured". He seemed genuinely knowledgable and could give me a laugh here and there. Now, it seems as if I'm aging backwards when I watch him today talk about "Floor Gang" as if it is a genuine funny meme that hasn't been dragged out to sell merch. It's been a wild ride, Felix, but I'm afraid I can no longer allow this. I don't believe in this brand-friendly side of you controlled by a control-freak.
I believe in asking questions and publishing what I can find out. I hope Sloth will repost that idea into a meme that is "relatable".
AwardsIf you believe my post deserves any awards, stop. I don't need digital tokens to know my work is high-quality or deserving of praise. Please spend your money donating to an organization that is dedicated to help an issue you care about and are passionate for. There are excellent organizations to donate to regarding LGBTQ rights and anti-prejudice in that regard, Black Lives Matter organizations that need all the help they can get, and coronavirus organizations that are dedicated to help find a cure or vaccine for coronavirus.
If you award me, I believe you are just as bad as someone who awards any post. Because you took an issue and refused to give it a platform. $5 is $5, it's still good money that can collectively save a life or two. My work is also pro bono, and I will refuse to let you give me money and kindly ask you to donate it to an organization of your choice.
But if you do have some extra coins from someone gilding you, spend it on something that amazes you. There will always be something that can amaze you in the future, and that's what Reddit's save feature is for.
If you would like to support the post for free you can also upvote it here which increases its chances of being viewed by PewDiePie fans unaware of this.
It's time to stand up against a subreddit of lies.
We work closely together with Pewdiepie. He knows who we are.But we're not forgetting you broke a specific rule he held so that you could "step in". The entire goal was to be an anarchy subreddit. It would be like me going into 2B2T, contacting Minecraft to give me operator permissions, continuously asking them, and then eventually morphing it into a child paradise.
There are times and places, and stepping in was not one of them. It was fine as it is, if it was going to be taken down, then so have it. At this point it's just /dankmemes 2.
I'm not going to respond to all of this because it's just so chockfull of bullshit that i cannot be bothered.Okay? You certainly had the time to contact me at 2 in the fucking morning to complain about my post and you certainly had the time to claim harassment.
Why do we have so many mods you ask? Because on some days we are literally the most active subreddit on reddit. funny does not even come close. We need mods from all timezones so we can watch the sub 24/7 to prevent NSFW content etc being posted, as the majority of the sub is pretty young and we don't want them to see things they don't want to see.Want to talk to /AskHistorians? They have 700 for a reason, to ensure quality content. You're not the most active.
The same excuse can be made for any other subreddit. I haven't seen /funny wallow in NSFW controversies with 10x the subscribers and 10x less moderators.
In a reply, there was a heated argument over shadowbanning everyone there.
That was wrong, and it only hurt your subreddit in the process.
Sure, you can consider it brigading. You can take that post down. But to stoop so low as to shadowban everyone there? You have no proof they were genuine users of your subreddit or if they were /CringePDPSubmissions members unless you, of course, scrape their Reddit account.
Speaking of which, you even took the time to join /RepostHell's Discord, meaning you scraped through my Reddit account. As in the words of you, "Who has the time for this?"
Sioux's Response + Zago's Reply
Sloth is well liked by the mod team there, and sive and Felix are friendly with him and all of us.Oh, you're telling me someone can't lie about feelings? Well, God then, I have to apologize to some 8-year-olds on Jailbreak because they were right when they said they weren't salty.
Wtf is wrong with you
They're downvoting but nobody is brave enough to reply because they can't produce a solid rebuttal this is gorgeousSorry, did you not read the Discord messages? Did you not read Sloth's response?
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